I’m not so sure this will have a chilling effect. In fact, I think it will have the opposite effect and embolden these individuals even more.
While I don’t think these public proclamations by members of the Trump administration are good or particularly helpful, or that a criminal investigation is — at least at this point — necessary, I do believe this is a situation worth looking into and monitoring. I am all for protecting the rights of Americans to protest and speak their mind and even document government activity, but these “protests” are not organic, and many of them go beyond protesting to include harassment and destruction of property. And I would not be surprised if they are the product of foreign influence.
There’s nothing criminal in what the protesters are doing, at least given any available information; barring any surprises, it’s not a “not at this point necessary” thing, it’s an “this is an attack on free speech and absolutely should not be happening” thing.
There’s no reason to believe the protests are not organic (or to put quotes around the word protests as if they’re somehow not real protests - a lot of Americans are concerned about the growth of fascism in the US, and so naturally there will be a lot of protest). Likewise, the speculation on foreign influence is unhinged and one of the most typical bonkers responses to people making excuses for authoritarianism.
The instinct that we should have high civility and approach disagreement with them by default is a good one. Interpersonally, it’s generally the right thing to do. But responding to an administration that’s gone so far beyond our political norms in many very concrete and clear ways - this isn’t just a “well vote differently next time” kind of situation.
There are some people peacefully protesting, but I would not call disrupting and interfering with ICE duties protesting. I would call it harassment, for one thing.
And “protests” aside, none of this would be necessary if Tim Walz and his team had done their jobs and prosecuted criminal illegal immigrants. Instead this is brought into the public sphere, with all the fanfare, and it’s exactly what the democrats want. It amazes me that people can’t see past optics to potential motives.
Copwatch is a long established tradition in many cities in the US, looking for abuses some subset of police commit. Actual interference with ICE has been fairly rare; ICE abuses against people monitoring them have been frequent.
Regardless of your reasoning in the last paragraph - regardless of policies and what-ifs (still laid in the wrong place - congress could've passed comprehensive immigration reform sometime back, but it's also legitimately a political choice of a place if and how to prosecute these things and not something to be punished), any enforcement of anything by the federal government needs to be done with due process and fundamental decency. That policies didn't go a certain way can't justify this. It's not optics - it's fundamentally unacceptable means.
I’m not so sure this will have a chilling effect. In fact, I think it will have the opposite effect and embolden these individuals even more.
While I don’t think these public proclamations by members of the Trump administration are good or particularly helpful, or that a criminal investigation is — at least at this point — necessary, I do believe this is a situation worth looking into and monitoring. I am all for protecting the rights of Americans to protest and speak their mind and even document government activity, but these “protests” are not organic, and many of them go beyond protesting to include harassment and destruction of property. And I would not be surprised if they are the product of foreign influence.
There’s nothing criminal in what the protesters are doing, at least given any available information; barring any surprises, it’s not a “not at this point necessary” thing, it’s an “this is an attack on free speech and absolutely should not be happening” thing.
There’s no reason to believe the protests are not organic (or to put quotes around the word protests as if they’re somehow not real protests - a lot of Americans are concerned about the growth of fascism in the US, and so naturally there will be a lot of protest). Likewise, the speculation on foreign influence is unhinged and one of the most typical bonkers responses to people making excuses for authoritarianism.
The instinct that we should have high civility and approach disagreement with them by default is a good one. Interpersonally, it’s generally the right thing to do. But responding to an administration that’s gone so far beyond our political norms in many very concrete and clear ways - this isn’t just a “well vote differently next time” kind of situation.
There are some people peacefully protesting, but I would not call disrupting and interfering with ICE duties protesting. I would call it harassment, for one thing.
And “protests” aside, none of this would be necessary if Tim Walz and his team had done their jobs and prosecuted criminal illegal immigrants. Instead this is brought into the public sphere, with all the fanfare, and it’s exactly what the democrats want. It amazes me that people can’t see past optics to potential motives.
Copwatch is a long established tradition in many cities in the US, looking for abuses some subset of police commit. Actual interference with ICE has been fairly rare; ICE abuses against people monitoring them have been frequent.
Regardless of your reasoning in the last paragraph - regardless of policies and what-ifs (still laid in the wrong place - congress could've passed comprehensive immigration reform sometime back, but it's also legitimately a political choice of a place if and how to prosecute these things and not something to be punished), any enforcement of anything by the federal government needs to be done with due process and fundamental decency. That policies didn't go a certain way can't justify this. It's not optics - it's fundamentally unacceptable means.