Reminds me of the Mafia. "It would be a shame if your husband lost his job at the plant, while you were busy testifying against his boss. We're not threatening anything, just saying."
I understand, in light of actual murders, attempted murders, and serious vandalism, against Jews in this country, as well as around the world, the emotionally valid concern by the mayor. I’m Jewish, and we’ve had serious antisemitic acts of violence and threats of violence in my own community. Blocks away from me, 2 cars were set on fire in the middle of the night, and death threats spray painted across the span of the roadway in front of a Jewish family’s home. But, her stupidity didn’t rise to the level of a police matter, and since they weren’t direct threats to him, she’s allowed (or should be!) to be dumb online.
Although an imbecile, I’m glad to see she had the wherewithal to not talk without her lawyer present. Good for her.
As much as I agree this was inappropriate, the claim that the mayor "called for the death of all Palestinians" is not criticism but a statement of fact, and if knowingly untrue is defamation. Defamation is not protected free speech in the US.
That doesn't justify getting the police involved, but calling this "too much free speech for the mayor to tolerate" doesn't grapple with whether this was free speech.
TJ, thanks for reading. I'm glad we agree this wasn't a police matter. But I don't think the mayor would have a viable defamation claim either, because Pacheco's comment is best understood as political opinion or hyperbole, not a factual assertion that Meiner has literally said, "I call for the death of all Palestinians." Pro-Palestinian activists routinely claim Israel is committing genocide in Gaza and that supporting Israel's military actions there is supporting genocide, i.e., the death of Palestinians. Whether or not one finds Pacheco's criticism fair or responsible, it's a common framing in contemporary political debate and protected as an opinion-based characterization of a public official's views.
Thank you for responding to my comment. Given the pervasiveness of genocidal words and violent acts surrounding the issue, I don’t agree that this would automatically be understood as hyperbole, especially among those already most radicalized. Moreover, this would seem to excuse falsely claiming that anybody called for anything, inducing further radicalism and political violence.
That malicious misrepresentation has become such a common tactic seems like a problem to be reined in, not a reason to carve it out from basic defamation law.
Although I haven't seen every statement from and policy of the mayor in question, I will assume for now that he has not in fact called for the death of every Palestinian. Probably not even close. So though I agree with your overall position on speech rights, and with incitement laws as they are, your story should be acknowledging the costly tradeoff involved here. A public figure is being defamed, and defamed in such a way that a sizable number of lunatics in this country will want him dead. Some of those lunatics have already murdered those they disliked. I agree with you that we have to tolerate this for the greater good, but don't pretend that this is merely a cheap assault by a thin skinned official.
Ridiculous! Maybe the police need a refresher on freedom of speech. And the mayor who made the remarks needs a refresher too. Just say no law enforcement!
Reminds me of the Mafia. "It would be a shame if your husband lost his job at the plant, while you were busy testifying against his boss. We're not threatening anything, just saying."
I understand, in light of actual murders, attempted murders, and serious vandalism, against Jews in this country, as well as around the world, the emotionally valid concern by the mayor. I’m Jewish, and we’ve had serious antisemitic acts of violence and threats of violence in my own community. Blocks away from me, 2 cars were set on fire in the middle of the night, and death threats spray painted across the span of the roadway in front of a Jewish family’s home. But, her stupidity didn’t rise to the level of a police matter, and since they weren’t direct threats to him, she’s allowed (or should be!) to be dumb online.
Although an imbecile, I’m glad to see she had the wherewithal to not talk without her lawyer present. Good for her.
As much as I agree this was inappropriate, the claim that the mayor "called for the death of all Palestinians" is not criticism but a statement of fact, and if knowingly untrue is defamation. Defamation is not protected free speech in the US.
That doesn't justify getting the police involved, but calling this "too much free speech for the mayor to tolerate" doesn't grapple with whether this was free speech.
Edit: softened overly harsh last sentence
TJ, thanks for reading. I'm glad we agree this wasn't a police matter. But I don't think the mayor would have a viable defamation claim either, because Pacheco's comment is best understood as political opinion or hyperbole, not a factual assertion that Meiner has literally said, "I call for the death of all Palestinians." Pro-Palestinian activists routinely claim Israel is committing genocide in Gaza and that supporting Israel's military actions there is supporting genocide, i.e., the death of Palestinians. Whether or not one finds Pacheco's criticism fair or responsible, it's a common framing in contemporary political debate and protected as an opinion-based characterization of a public official's views.
Thank you for responding to my comment. Given the pervasiveness of genocidal words and violent acts surrounding the issue, I don’t agree that this would automatically be understood as hyperbole, especially among those already most radicalized. Moreover, this would seem to excuse falsely claiming that anybody called for anything, inducing further radicalism and political violence.
That malicious misrepresentation has become such a common tactic seems like a problem to be reined in, not a reason to carve it out from basic defamation law.
Although I haven't seen every statement from and policy of the mayor in question, I will assume for now that he has not in fact called for the death of every Palestinian. Probably not even close. So though I agree with your overall position on speech rights, and with incitement laws as they are, your story should be acknowledging the costly tradeoff involved here. A public figure is being defamed, and defamed in such a way that a sizable number of lunatics in this country will want him dead. Some of those lunatics have already murdered those they disliked. I agree with you that we have to tolerate this for the greater good, but don't pretend that this is merely a cheap assault by a thin skinned official.
Deeply concerning.
Ridiculous! Maybe the police need a refresher on freedom of speech. And the mayor who made the remarks needs a refresher too. Just say no law enforcement!