My wife and I are constantly surprised by what people think is appropriate to wear to our black church, much less out in public. When people see anyone out in public, they "tag" you into categories--old man, young woman--and you become an avatar for that group. When folks wear slippers, pjs, and bonnets (not a stylish wrap but a $1 shower cap) to the store or on a plane, that tag gets put on everyone in that group. And if you are dressed appropriately, you still get tagged, but with "At least HE/SHE isn't dressed like THAT." Tuskegee is reminding its students of something our pastor says, being black does not require dressing or acting like the streets. Be the best of God's children.
I think Fire is expressing luxury beliefs in this essay. We learn behavior by how we behave it’s not like math that we learn didactically. It is not unreason to believe that this is a way of Imparting the behavioral skills needed to thrive in our society
Bunk. I'm a hardcore free speecher. But there is no free speech right to dress like a bum, certainly not on the campus of a private university. I think what Tuskegee is doing is a great idea. Maybe it's because I'm an old black guy who is sick and tired of seeing the collapse of standards of decorum among our people. I'm a huge fan of what FIRE stands for, but you guys have gotten it wrong on this one.
I think this is a miss. Never too early to understand the importance of how you present yourself and with that where you are.This is a stretch to claim freedom of speech here. They'll likely survive.
While I generally support FIRE, much as I generally support the ACLU, that does not mean I will agree with every battle it chooses to fight. This is one where I disagree. Tuskegee’s students will benefit from learning to dress and conduct themselves professionally in school settings. In their private time and private homes, they are free to dress and behave as they wish.
Dress codes at academic institutions are legitimate extensions of institutional standards. The idea that any behavior no matter how selfish or stupid is "protected" by the first amendment is laughable. People who believe that "wardrobe is free speech" are not as smart as they think they are.
I have a soft spot for the Tuskegee policy, so I am not unbiased, but I disagree with FIRE. From the beginning, this storied institution has fancied itself as a kind of finishing school, not simply a place of instruction. Students are expected to attire and conduct themselves to certain standards. This policy is entirely in keeping with that tradition, and students effectively opt in to this policy by attending. These students can still express themselves as they wish in the privacy of their dorms or off campus. No one’s speech is entirely abridged.
The college I attended, nearly 50 years ago now, was at that time owned and operated by General Motors, as a co-operative engineering and management education institution. The dress code was very lose for most classroom sessions, tighter for lab sessions, because of safety reasons, and a norm existed (some instructors included this in their grading rubric) that required student presenters to wear "professionally appropriate" clothing, shoes, and hairstyles. The usual way it was expressed by the instructors was "dress like you're presenting to your boss's boss, asking for funding for a project you really want to do."
I think Tuskegee might be better served by asking the faculty to establish a norm of this type, so that students are coached and provided with opportunities to practice and get feedback about how their style choices affect their ability to communicate for different purposes and to different audiences.
That college is now called Kettering University, and their currently best known graduate is Mary Barra, GM's president.
Students pay to attend the university. The University dress code is part of of the package. If the rules are published in advance, students who choose to attend have no reason to object.
This isn't a free speech issue. Confusing the "expression" of wearing pajamas to class with freedom of expression is a real waste of time.
My wife and I are constantly surprised by what people think is appropriate to wear to our black church, much less out in public. When people see anyone out in public, they "tag" you into categories--old man, young woman--and you become an avatar for that group. When folks wear slippers, pjs, and bonnets (not a stylish wrap but a $1 shower cap) to the store or on a plane, that tag gets put on everyone in that group. And if you are dressed appropriately, you still get tagged, but with "At least HE/SHE isn't dressed like THAT." Tuskegee is reminding its students of something our pastor says, being black does not require dressing or acting like the streets. Be the best of God's children.
I think Fire is expressing luxury beliefs in this essay. We learn behavior by how we behave it’s not like math that we learn didactically. It is not unreason to believe that this is a way of Imparting the behavioral skills needed to thrive in our society
Bunk. I'm a hardcore free speecher. But there is no free speech right to dress like a bum, certainly not on the campus of a private university. I think what Tuskegee is doing is a great idea. Maybe it's because I'm an old black guy who is sick and tired of seeing the collapse of standards of decorum among our people. I'm a huge fan of what FIRE stands for, but you guys have gotten it wrong on this one.
I think this is a miss. Never too early to understand the importance of how you present yourself and with that where you are.This is a stretch to claim freedom of speech here. They'll likely survive.
While I generally support FIRE, much as I generally support the ACLU, that does not mean I will agree with every battle it chooses to fight. This is one where I disagree. Tuskegee’s students will benefit from learning to dress and conduct themselves professionally in school settings. In their private time and private homes, they are free to dress and behave as they wish.
Ms. Lasky, you could not be more wrong in either your criticism of Tuskegee's policy or the effects you predict it will produce.
Dress codes at academic institutions are legitimate extensions of institutional standards. The idea that any behavior no matter how selfish or stupid is "protected" by the first amendment is laughable. People who believe that "wardrobe is free speech" are not as smart as they think they are.
Time, place, and MANNER restrictions are allowable constraints on the freedom of speech.
Private high schools all over the country have dress codes or uniforms. So do certain jobs. What is different here?
I have a soft spot for the Tuskegee policy, so I am not unbiased, but I disagree with FIRE. From the beginning, this storied institution has fancied itself as a kind of finishing school, not simply a place of instruction. Students are expected to attire and conduct themselves to certain standards. This policy is entirely in keeping with that tradition, and students effectively opt in to this policy by attending. These students can still express themselves as they wish in the privacy of their dorms or off campus. No one’s speech is entirely abridged.
The college I attended, nearly 50 years ago now, was at that time owned and operated by General Motors, as a co-operative engineering and management education institution. The dress code was very lose for most classroom sessions, tighter for lab sessions, because of safety reasons, and a norm existed (some instructors included this in their grading rubric) that required student presenters to wear "professionally appropriate" clothing, shoes, and hairstyles. The usual way it was expressed by the instructors was "dress like you're presenting to your boss's boss, asking for funding for a project you really want to do."
I think Tuskegee might be better served by asking the faculty to establish a norm of this type, so that students are coached and provided with opportunities to practice and get feedback about how their style choices affect their ability to communicate for different purposes and to different audiences.
That college is now called Kettering University, and their currently best known graduate is Mary Barra, GM's president.
Students pay to attend the university. The University dress code is part of of the package. If the rules are published in advance, students who choose to attend have no reason to object.